Doing The Work To Connect To Your True Self- Amir Zoghi

In this interview I chat to Amir Zhogi, he is a life coach, pilot and speaker. He speaks to us about doing the work, the importance of building a life and the truth of who we really are.

Much of his philosophy is very similar to what we hear in the yoga philosophy I'm sure you'll see the parallels too. You'll find in this short interview we cover; true love vs external love.

The difference between who we think we are and who we really are. Quick note... his breakdown and example of the truth of who we are is pretty cool.

Interview Transcript

Krystle:  Thanks for making the time

Amir: Yeah, it's my pleasure

Krystle: Appreciate it. Very generous with your time

Amir: When it comes to doing what I really enjoy and sharing from who I am. There's no other way you know so I’m getting something out of it too.

Krystle: How long have you been doing it for?

Amir: Speaking, coaching? Now, I always forget this but it's been over you know 15 years. What am I now? So I started early like in my 20s young 20s. 22, 23 I started in the in the industry. I started speaking when I was like 26.

Krystle: Wow!

Amir: 26, maybe 27.

Krystle: Was there a part of you that was like at 26, 27, “Who am I to get up here”?

Who Am I To Get Up Here?

Amir: Oh yeah, absolutely! I mean, my background was a promoter so I would promote speakers into Australia. I worked in a company and then I started my own company. And there was a point I got to where you know we were having a chat before about where you look underneath the hood you said you look underneath the hood of the Ferrari and you notice it's not a Ferrari it's a Datsun or a GeminI you said. I realize that you know after you know being a promoter and bringing speakers into Australia I realized it all sounded like a Ferrari or looked like a Ferrari but when you look underneath the hood it wasn't.  So the reason I got into being a promoter was because and I would only promote a speaker who I really resonate with a message and I felt had something to teach me as well.

Amir: So I just got to a point where I realized it ain't what it looks like you know? It ain't what it sounds like. So but it was very important for me, still because I was like that that to me is very real. Although it's not real from what I’ve seen or experienced I still believe in the core message of love. I still believe in that infinite energy. I mean I was raised that way from a family member when I was from the age of 12 you know? So it really resonated with me. Even though some of the people that were delivering it you know they were just delivering it. It's easy to talk it, it's not really easy to live it. I always say that people can talk about this stuff but to be able to live it you really got to be it.

Letting Go Of Everything

Amir: So that's how I started, I sold my company, moved away. When I say moved away, moved away from the industry. Just stop doing everything, stop reading books, stop going to personal development programs. I stopped everything. I was just like I don't want to learn anymore I want to live this stuff.

Amir: So I went on a 12 months sabbatical. No work, just watch my income to… well, I didn't have an income but watch my savings all go. Again to me, it was like I don't care about that. Like if I have to be homeless but at the end of it I can find what I’m looking for I’m willing to go there. Like that was a decision I made, and I say that because I got eviction notices, I got my car repossessed. I had a very good strong credit rating all got defaulted. I was just like you know if I have to go to that extent, I’m willing. Not that people need to go to that extent but that's just where I was.

Finding Your Own Voice

Amir: When I made that decision to do that or in the process of making that decision to do that right there I was like but who am I to do I mean and the reason I thought who am I to do this, is because I would reflect back to all the speakers I’ve promoted and look at all the work, the study, they had done. They had that this that you know, that's so much.

Amir: And I’m like I haven't studied anything I just I’m just following a feeling. I don't even have any content. My content is me, to get up and talk about my what I feel and my about my process of hey let's not just talk about this let's freaking live this. So I had that thought but the thought of not doing what I felt to do, felt like I was gonna die. It felt like my soul someone had just strangled my throat and there was a part of me that would die if I didn't get up on stage and share what I felt to share. Even though I didn't know what it was that I was going to share. I just had a feeling that I need to get up and share. That's how it started. You know I came up with the name of a program and I had no content.

Krystle: Obviously, you've done the work but to get up and not know how you're going to structure it, how you're going to deliver it. So what was that like when you did it like once you did it?

Amir: I won't lie, I was very scared to the point that your biggest fear is not having something to say. It’s like what am I gonna do if I get up there I’ve invited 10 people who I didn't know into my friend's boardroom in North Sydney that we were borrowed off for an entire program of an entire day, nine to five. Like my biggest fear was what if I run out of something to say?

Starting Over and Finding What I Want To Do

 Amir: So I won't lie I invited a friend of mine who was a professional speaker and said hey I want you to come there and just have my back, if I run out of something to say I want you to step in and then run a bit of the program while I kind of catch my breath. He's like “yeah, yeah I got you back. I could do that I could just talk about my NLP and this is that” and I’m like sweet.

Amir: So we start this program and I started with “good morning, welcome” and I just kept going and the content just kept coming out and it just kept coming out. In fact my friend got inspired about what I was sharing and so he would kind of chime in and join in and want to add value and I was, I looked at him and said “Hey, Patrick, I got this you know so sit out”.

Amir: So he sat down and that's when I realized you know I can do this but you never know unless you're willing to follow the decision. See, but the decision, sometimes people can't make the decision until they know how. I didn't know how I didn't even know what I was going to share but the decision for me was real the feeling was real. So I make the decision to do it despite not knowing how, despite not knowing what.

Krystle: It takes a lot of courage to step into that space, huh?

Amir: But you know the thing is I learn a lot about that because I repeat that now continuously in my life because I don't know you know I’m always following my feeling. Whether it's starting a new business, a relationship you know um hiring people firing people. It's just I just I’m purely following the feeling and and I never know how it's gonna be. I mean I got to a point where I stopped speaking seven years ago you know I just was like I don't feel to speak right now. So I chimed it all down. And then I started going into aviation and picked up a childhood dream of becoming a pilot and then went and became a commercial pilot. I started my own aviation, well, I purchased my own aviation business. Now I do that. In addition to that…

Krystle: But at that moment I’m going to interrupt you for a second..

Amir: Yeah, yeah please do because I'll keep going

Krystle: At that moment where you feel the feeling to get up and deliver whatever it is. In your case it was content to support people in their journey. Doubt comes up, fear comes up..

How To Handle Doubts

Amir: I mean doubt comes up, fear comes up because you haven't decided to do it. Like when I say decided to do it - wholehearted decision. When you make a half-hearted decision, it's half heart the rest is half head. So it's like you feel in your heart but now you have some logical backup, “well, I’m good at this, well, you know it will get me to where I want to do it”. You bring the logic in. So with logic comes fear, not that there's anything wrong with logic, we use logic you know but I use logic to decide on the feeling, not use logic to validate justify or empower my feeling. The feeling's already empowered.

Decide With the Heart

Amir: So when I talk about this in my programs I tell people that in my process I use my head to decide to follow the decision that's already made. You see when you're feeling something in your heart the decision is already made; you feel it, a love for someone, I love to do something, I love to change direction. The decision’s already made. All you're doing is realizing that decision is already made.

Amir: I talk about this like falling in love with your children for example. So you know what, first time I met my children I didn't go and decide that I’m going to love them. Well I should love them they’re my child or I’m going to love them because if you're going to or if you're deciding to love them then you're bringing logic. So bringing logic into the decision is well I’m going to love you if you do this, if you show up this way, if you don't do that, right?

Amir: So all what you're doing when you're realizing the love for your children is like, you didn't decide, you're realizing that love is there. So that's what I mean like it's the decision’s already made and that's what you feel. Sometimes people feel that and you know they'll say it's a knowing you know someone will go, “How do you know? How do you know you should do that? And they go I don't know I just know” because you’re saying I don't know any logic at this point but I have a feeling that is a knowing…

Krystle: Which goes against so much of what we're taught, right? Because everything we're taught is you should write a pros and cons list and tick it off and put in.

Amir: It feels so heavy, like the moment you just mention do pros and cons, it's like it's you're making your decision with your head. Again I get that, right?...

Krystle: That's how we're taught, right? It's how we're taught at school…

Amir: to calculate

Krystle: One plus one equals two

Matters Of The Heart Does Not Require Logic

Amir: Exactly! I fly  a plane. I’ve got to calculate my fuel plan. You know what I mean? But when it comes to matters of the heart, it's not logic, right? You use your logical process to decide to follow the feeling. You don't logically fall in love with someone you know. Sometimes you fall in love with someone you don't even know why you fall in love with them.

Krystle: Sometimes

Amir: Well, all of the time I would say. I didn't want to push the boundaries there. You're just like “why do I love this guy or girl? Why do I love?” you know because the feeling was there. You didn't decide I’m gonna love you. You realize I love you. Do you know what I mean?

Krystle: Absolutely! I want to go back because there's a lot in that opening rant that I could sort of the…

Amir: Rant? Is that what you call it?

Krystle: …on Instagram, it's the best I love it I love your rant

Amir: Yeah, thanks!

Krystle: Go Amir! When you had that 12 months, where you just let everything unravel the sounds of it. What did you need to learn there? Why did that, why was that necessary for you?

Amir: I just needed to know that this feeling that I felt within me was real. Because a lot of times we don't follow it because we don't know it's real, because it's not tangible, it's formless, right? And we've learned to recognize what is real as being the form. What you can see, what you can smell, what you can taste, what you can touch, what you can hear with these ears but you're not always hearing with these ears. Sometimes you hear with an inner ear, sometimes you see with an inner mind. Do you know you're not always seeing with these eyes, right? And when you have the feeling, which is you know I call it an infinite feeling, it's the real feeling, it's the real love. Not the love that has a reason, it's the real love when you have that feeling, most people don't know that as being real, like that it's real in the moment, right? But the moment they look into their real into this, into their story, what they think is real right that supersedes what the feeling is.

Listening to the Inner Feeling

Amir: So for me I had all this inner feeling since 12.  When I became older and young adult I was just like I just made that up, I mean I was 12 it was my imagination, right? That wasn't real. So same goes when I was you know 25, 26, well I’ve always had this feeling, this spark, this aliveness, this joy, whatever you want to call it. It's just the real feeling. I always be like I mean it feels real in the moment but it's not really real I’m just making it up.

Amir: So that 12 months of my life, it was I guess a relationship between me and that feeling and I’m like show me that you're real, show me that I’m not imagining this, because I’ve just left my whole business, and I’m just bleeding money here, right? I tried to get back into my business it was a different business because I was bleeding money. And an opportunity came knocking and I went into that business and I was just like it's not, I can't do this. Three weeks into it I went to my business partner, “I can't do this. I’m on this sabbatical”. I went back to it. So it was, “Show me that you're real and as long as I know you're real what I feel within me, I will go all the way” and this is the conversation I had with myself. If it means I’m going to be homeless, if it means I will go all the way but I just want to know I’m not going crazy here because it's illogical. The feeling has no logic to it so therefore you think I’m going crazy, right?

Amir: So ultimately where that brought me at the end of the 12 months was a place where that feeling was more real than what I would see and the sounds that I would hear around me you know? People would speak, the world will turn, viruses will come …

Amir: And it's like, I just look at it and go, I understand it but that's not what's real for me. You know within the difficulties circumstances in a community or a global event or you know a business or anything that I was going through in my life, a breakup you know, any difficulty that I was going through, any process. The feeling inside of me was far more clearer and more dominant or louder than the noises that were coming from outside. My entire whole life is following the feeling. And the biggest thing that gives me is I’m following what's real, I’m following what's real for me. So I feel alive, right?

Amir: Now, of course things form from that when you follow the feeling. You have this outcome and results that eventuate from it. But most people think you're following the feeling because of the outcome and result and that's where they fall because you're following the feeling because you feel alive, you feel joyful, right? But people are too consumed by the outcome and result. Why? because they want to feel alive or they want to feel joyful in attaining the outcome and result.

Krystle: Well, most people actually calculate the outcome and results. So it's, “Well, if I want to be there then I need to work backwards and do xyz” in order to get the outcome and results. So they do that before they even connect to the feeling.

Do Not Be A Slave To Outcomes

Amir: But to me that is becoming a slave -- a slave to the outcome and result. What happens in that is that when you do, if you do and when or if or when you do attain that outcome and result, what happens is you try to keep it and you become very manipulative and controlling; whatever that outcome or result is or was is not enough.

Amir: So what happens is you start making millions of dollars, it's now not enough because now you need hundreds of millions of dollars to make those million dollars feel safe. It's never enough. You find love, right? But if you were looking to find love from a space of being unloved then you're pursuing the outcome and result. And when and if you do find love, the love feels empty like what I mean by that, the person might love you and you might feel loved but then you need to control them to ensure or manipulate them to ensure that they continue to love you that way in order for you to feel loved.

Amir: So whatever the outcome and result is when and if you attain it, you feel the emptiness of it because you now need to put all blood sweat and tears into ensuring it doesn't change. So to me, this that I’m sharing what I’m talking to people about is in you, there's nothing you need to do to find it. In fact it's about letting go of all the things that you think you need to do.

Krystle: It's the same and the yoga philosophy says the same. There are many paths to get to that point  of connection and no path is better than the other, they're just different but they're all gonna get you to the same, right? So this is my next question, right? There's a lot of stuff out there, the life coaching and if I’m watching this and I’m someone who's you know I’m feeling like there are parts of my life that aren't where I would like them to be and I’m thinking about doing some work, thinking about engaging in life coaching, what is that process? Like what it looks like, where do you start? What do you do?

Amir: For me you start with yourself. What most people's mistake is they start with what's trending. I mean no disrespect to any practices or modalities or anything. Like I’ve never done yoga so I don't know what I’m talking about but yoga became a trend and is a trend

Krystle: Absolutely.

Amir: And don't get me wrong, it's amazing! And if that works for you then you do that. Meditation has become a trend. Now you think yourself, “What's wrong with that, Amir?” Nothing wrong with it but if you're doing it because it's a trend that ain't it. Like don't get me wrong if it's working for you then you do it. But the truth, see, modalities and practices and disciplines are very important, I’m not disregarding it. When I’m coaching a newer coaching group I give them disciplines to do, whether it's meditation or different practices that I give to them. Because a busy mind needs direction, right? A busy mind needs religion, I don’t want to get too controversial here. Well it needs direction, it needs a discipline.

Krystle: In a lot of the yoga philosophy they say the same thing.

Amir: I love that

Krystle: You use the tools to get you to a point that  you will reach a point where you also have to let go of the tools.

Amir: Oh wow! If yoga said that I love that because  it's not ayahuasca or yoga or the meditation, whatever you think you're using that is giving you some kind of mind discipline to find that feeling that I’m talking to about like okay use it, no problem if that is a line for you, it feels true, great! But it will get you to the door, you need to put it behind you to walk through the door because to walk through the door, you need to walk with nothing, not even what got you to there.

What Trips Us Up?

Krystle: So tell me, what do you think is one of the biggest things to trip us up or the biggest thing that trips us?

Amir: The opinion of others. It's like what would someone think. I mean, why are we so afraid to fail? If you think about it, we're so afraid to fail. One of the reasons why we don't follow what we feel. Whether it's to love someone, we're afraid of being rejected, whether it's to start a business, I’m afraid of failure. The reason we are so afraid of failure is because of what other people will think. I mean if you go and peel the layers of the onion back, like someone will go, “No, I’m just I’m afraid of failing for myself”right? But if no one would find out about your failure it wouldn't affect you as much.

Krystle: That's right.

Amir: The opinion of others is the biggest trip up. We see that a lot on social media, where people project themselves in a certain light as we were speaking about before, to get the approval of others, to get the recognition, to get the acceptance. The part of you that's looking for the approval of others is your ego. Now before you go and judge your ego, just notice that's your ego that's starting to make the judgment and going “oh my ego, my damn ego” that's your ego so let's just stop that straight away. You gotta understand what your ego is looking for and the ego is looking for exactly what you're looking for, it's looking for love but it's looking for the love in all the wrong places.

Amir: In other words, it's looking for love from form which is received temporarily, you can never keep that. Where your soul, the soul is looking for the real. It's like the soul is the drop of the ocean the real being infinity, the real energy. You know our biggest fear is the fear of not being loved, it's the fear of rejection right and that is the ego's biggest fear. It's like if I fail more people will judge me, if I love and get hurt I will feel rejected and what is it that you feel, fearing when you're fearing rejection, you're fearing not being loved. But again that's your ego looking for that. The soul, its biggest fear is the size and the enormity of the real love because the soul sees itself as the drop of the ocean and it can feel the essence of what it really is part of what is one with and what it really is. At first its fear is the enormity of that love. As Mandela said in his speech, “We fear the light not the darkness”, we feel the possibilities, well he didn't say that but I’m just going on. But that's a little bit of a conversation between ego and soul. How's that with the yoga? Is that still fitting in? Because I’m getting a different reaction face there.

Krystle: It’s a different terminology I think you know. We use different terms to cover this very similar principles, universal consciousness and individual consciousness -- those types of terms to help understand and process. Would it be fair to say that you have to have that unconditional love for self and connection to that love for self in order to be able to feel that for another on a very deep level?

Amir: Okay, here's the thing. If you can find yourself and I call the real, that is unconditional love. When you find that you don't need to unconditionally love yourself. I mean why would love need to unconditionally love itself. The real love is that unconditional love. When you haven't attained that love then yes you need to unconditionally love yourself.

Krystle: Do you think it would be fair to say that most of us we're living in a time where we're looking for that, we're seeking that, we're searching that, we want to experience that connection to that part of ourselves which is love. Because yoga says that, we have different terms but that at your essence it's called purusha --it's that part of you that is, it's what you call the infinite which is love, the infinite itself right?

How To Connect With Ourselves

Amir: Yeah, the infinite self is the real love. When I say the real love, it's the love that has no reason. Where the love that you attain in form is not the real love it's temporary or a reflection of the real love but it's not the real love. Do you understand?

Krystle: Yeah, I understand. We call that prakriti -- it's anything that exists in matter form

Amir: Wow, very cool.

Krystle: Interestingly, in yoga they consider the mind to also be a form of matter.

Amir: Right, tell me about that, which mind are we talking about the mind up here

Krystle: My mind

Amir: Not the big mind?

Krystle: Not the big mind

Amir: Okay because yeah, I guess it's two different reference points. Most people when you talk about minds it's up here but to me…

Krystle: In yoga they have there's also, I think maybe one of the best terms for would be like a heart mind. It’s a different mind

Amir: and that to me is the one mind. There's not two, there's only one. And for me our biggest drop in, our biggest place we can find ourselves when we are being that one mind. And I call that “being infinite in a finite world”. So the finite world being matter, being separation, you're over there, I’m over here, there is some limitations, there's gravity, there's you know there's forces that come in place. But being infinite in the in the finite world. We talk about infinity, all the time people talk about infinite energy right? If you think about this and this is not terminology it's not the correct terminology because the moment I pose this question you'd be like “well, hang on that's not right” but here's the question, what's the one thing an infinite being can't have? because and now the first response is “well, hang on it's an infinite being you can have whatever because infinite can have whatever, right?

Amir: And 100 percent agree but if you just go into the infinite land, if you understand what infinite means infinite means there's no boundaries, there's no parameters, it was never born, it never dies. It's some people like to say it's full power, full energy, joy, love, okay my favorite part is there's no boundaries, there's no parameters, right?

Understanding Parts of Yourself

Amir: So what you got to understand is when you're in a state of infinite or when we're talking about infinity there can never be two infinites. Why? because there's no boundaries, no parameters. It takes a while for people to click in. If there's no boundaries, no parameters, no beginning no end you can't have two infinites because you'll need a boundary, a parameter, a beginning, an end. Therefore, if that was the case it's not two infinite, it's two finites. So the one thing that you could never have as an infinite being is another infinite being. Unless, you manifest form, where you as the one manifest the perception of duality and each part becomes where infinity is the ocean, each part becomes a drop of the ocean or a better reference point for people becomes an iceberg, because the moment you become an iceberg you have a parameter. You become a solid, the ocean is formless.

Amir: The iceberg is solid right? But what's the iceberg made out of, it's made out of the ocean. It's the same thing, it's just formed and formed itself right. Now who is the iceberg, the iceberg thinks it's iceberg but it's not really the iceberg, the iceberg is actually the ocean -- vibrating at a different frequency known as physical form. Now, but the iceberg doesn't know that because the iceberg has learnt to understand its parameters, I’m over here, you're over there, these are my beliefs, these are my limitations, these are my dreams, what all of it is in there in the iceberg. But from time to time an iceberg starts to go there's something more, something more beyond this parameter world, this physical world, something's missing, something's not whole, something's not complete and the iceberg stops looking outside of itself, to other icebergs and starts to look within itself, deep within itself because where's most of the iceberg as they say 90 percent of the iceberg is under the water so you go deep within yourself to a point where you realize you are not the iceberg.

Amir: Now when you realize you're not the iceberg then who are you? You are the one this is what I refer to as being, the one being infinite. Now you're still the iceberg you haven't died because when death or form is when the iceberg melt and what happens when the iceberg melts? It goes back to the ocean it becomes the one again. But this is before death, this is awakening before you move on from form. The iceberg begins to realize it's not the iceberg and realizes it is the ocean. Now that iceberg starts to talk to other icebergs and goes, hey that's not something and starts to talk, to the other icebergs within the icebergs like within themselves.

Amir: I won't get too over complicated here but if the two icebergs start to conversing about this and one iceberg helps the other iceberg to realize that you're not the iceberg which is a very hard conversation to have, right? But when this iceberg realizes it's not the iceberg and this iceberg realizes not the iceberg, what do you have two infinite beings. Now do you really have two of them? No, you are experiencing yourself being two infinite beings in a finite world. What does that give you?

Amir: Full love. The infinite being in a finite world, full love. You can now love the other iceberg completely, right? Why? because you no longer need the other iceberg to love you. Why? because you are love. Why would you need another iceberg to love you when you are love, why do you need to unconditionally love yourself when you already are loved?

Krystle: It's important work huh

Amir: It's the most important work you'll ever do in this world. You think it's something that you're going to create in this world, it’s something that you'll leave behind in this world? No, the most important work you'll do is the work that you're doing yourself.

Krystle: What's funny and what I’ve found is, the more work I do on myself, the more the work on the outside just unfolds it doesn't require. I mean it requires effort and requires action. I’m not saying that it doesn't…

Amir: but that action is effortless

Krystle: Yeah it's a different and it has a different quality to it, has a different quality to it. Things tend to unfold and it doesn't require you know because there's a lot of talk about hustle and you gotta you know, you have to push and “ra,ra, ra” you know?

How To Be Inspired

Amir: oh yeah, I know all about that. I haven't hustled for, I can't tell you. I forgot the last time I’ve got what hustle means. Like it's the last time I hustled was probably when I was 24, 25 years of age but you know I’m 100 percent with you. Like it's you know, the most important thing people think is to make a living but it really isn't, it's about making a life. The living takes place, takes care of itself. Just like the seasons take care of themselves. You're not worried about the seasons, you're not worried about where your next breath is coming from, if you're sleeping. And again like you said, it's not like it doesn't require action but your action is inspired.

Krystle: I love that word, inspired.

Amir: Yeah it's inspired, it's not motivated.

Krystle: And one of the words well I think one of the meanings, one of the root meanings of the word inspired is actually translates “in spirit”. I have to look that up and send it to you.

Amir: I like that

Krystle: I think that's one of the original real meaning of the word inspired to be in spirit

Amir: Yeah, that's amazing. We can do this anytime.

Krystle: Beautiful! I'll look forward to the next one.

Amir: Cool