Post Natal Yoga- For Mums And Yoga Teachers
In this interview I take the time to catch up with my friend Kathy Grace she is a yoga teacher and naturopath who has years of experience working with pre and post conception care.
We talk about the challenges in teaching mums and bus classes and what you need to know to prepare yourself for a class.
Interview Transcript
Krystle: I was doing some reflecting actually for this interview and had a memory come back to me was so funny. Remember early on when i was teaching some of the post-natal stuff at your studio
Kathy: Yes, yeah I do
Krystle: Remember how you had to kind of talk me into teaching that class Kathy: Yep Krystle: I remember that time that we had, like that class got so busy.
Krystle: It was, it just got busier and busier and remember one class we had, I don't know it was like some ridiculous amount of students that I wasn't used to. Like maybe 12 or 13, which for a Post natal class for a new teacher I'd only been teaching a very short time
Kathy: Yeah
Krystle: And I had you know like 12 new mums, 12 babies and one of them had twins. Do you remember?
Kathy: Yeah
Krystle: And I nearly walked out and went home
Kathy: Oh really? I didn't know that.
A Challenging Start
Krystle: That day when I showed up and you were like, “So I just need to let you know there's a new mum coming and she's got twins”.
Krystle: And I think my jaw dropped to the floor and and you were like, “but it's fine I'm gonna be here. So, if anything happens or you need a hand or you need me to step in I'm here”. And the room is just packed.
Krystle: There were babies everywhere and mums everywhere. And I was like trying to be calm on the outside but on the inside I was so freaking out.
Kathy: It's a challenging class, it really is. It is, like particularly when you first start it. It is challenging
Krystle: Do you think you're a really Zen yoga teacher and you've kind of got it all together and then you teach a post natal class and you're like, wow, yeah this is you know, it's a lesson in having to completely let go and not.
Krystle: Because you like you there is no such thing as having control over the class or the room. Or you know from the minute you step in to the minute the class is over, you have babies that are crying babies that need to be changed, babies that have fallen asleep, mums that are exhausted.
Krystle: You know mums that are trying to you know they and they're doing part of the class and not all of the class. And having come from studios where most of my students were you know in their 20s 30s, you know or corporate.
Krystle: It was you know you had control of the room from the moment you started to the moment it ended, right? So it was just such a different headspace and I remember the first couple of times I taught that class I was like, wow I'm really exhausted but it was fun.
Krystle: There was an element of just needing to go with whatever came up on that day. So it was cool. I was really reflecting on that.
Kathy: Well, you did well because I don't think I knew any of that. So I mean I knew you're a bit nervous but that was it
Krystle: On that note, if you were a new teacher and you were teaching say a mums and bobs like a post natal class, what advice do you have? What would you tell someone who's just starting out in that kind of area.
Kathy: That's a good question. Look, I think, probably to be patient and to be okay with the mayhem, like that's obviously the first thing because there's noise.
Kathy: Like you said, there were women that aren't participating. There are babies that are crying, there are babies that are changing, with babies that are feeding. So being okay with that is definitely the hardest part of that class.
Kathy: I think also just to lower your expectations and that's okay and that the women don't care. They don't come to do a normal yoga class, they come to participate in a bit of movement and a bit of breath and a bit of relaxation and the baby's a part of it and they get to connect with other women.
Kathy: Like, that's to me, that's the essence of that class, is that energy of the connection and the ability just to stop. So that's probably what I would tell them is like, just kind of go with it. I think it's actually a really great place to start for a yoga teacher because nobody cares if it doesn't flow.
Kathy: Like, nobody cares if you forget the word of the posture. Like, you know it's not important.
Krystle: That's really, that's a fantastic point because I think that when you are a new teacher and you are standing up in front of a room of 26 people let's just say, and they are all, some yoga experience.
Krystle: There's huge amount of pressure to get the pacing right, to get you cueing right, to get you know your sequencing down pat and remembering left and right.
Krystle: It looks so easy once you've got the experience under your belt but when you actually stand up to do it for the first six months or whatever it is, it's actually really really hard
Kathy: Yeah, absolutely much scarier
Is Post-Natal Yoga Suitable for You?
Krystle: Yeah I never actually thought about that, that's great advice. That's really good advice. Anyway so when looking at the post natal yoga and the mums and bubs classes,
Krystle: I imagine you would get new mums calling you and saying, “Look, I'm thinking about coming and trying this. You know I might have had a baby six months ago or five months ago whatever it is.
Krystle: Do you think it's suitable for me?” I guess my question to you is, what do you say to that, what do you say to mums who are kind of in two minds about whether the postnatal yoga is for them or what they'll get out of the sessions?
Kathy: Look, I usually just try to tell them just to come and give it a go. Like, have a try then it would be just a matter of, come and participate.
Kathy: They're often worried about their babies and are their babies going to perform, which is just insane. So that's usually a conversation that I have, it's like your babies will cry, your babies will need to be changed, they will need to be fed and that's all part of the class.
Kathy: And I always try and say that, at the beginning of the class as well is like, your baby's number one, your baby comes first and the yoga. Yoga and what we do comes second but they're still participating because they're in the room.
Kathy: So, they're still getting that energy anyway. A lot of the women that I’ve worked with are women that have come through my prenatal classes.
Kathy: So it's been a fairly easily easy transition into you know, they do prenatal, they have a little gap and then they come back to postnatal so that hasn't been so tricky. The women that are coming to it for the first time, often haven't had any experience like haven't in yoga, often very unfit.
Kathy: So they need to be reassured that they're not going to be pushed at a really hard level. And they're not going to be expected to do headstands you know. It's like letting them know that it is an easy comfortable class.
Kathy: That’s probably the main things. It's just more about, “what if my baby cries?”, it's like, it will.
Krystle: That's what babies do.
Kathy: That's what they do. And guaranteed after about you know, four weeks, the babies settle into that routine and they know this is a space I come and it's calm and it's okay and they get used to it but those first few weeks can be pretty full on for new mums and new teachers when the babies are crazy.
Just Breathe!
Krystle: I remember there was one class, Kathy. Where there was every single baby in the room crying and they wouldn't like I don't know, like nine of them. And I was just like, let's just all breathe.
Kathy: Yeah, absolutely, and that's perfect you know to actually stop and just do some breathing the mums appreciate it because that's what happens at home and they don't have that support network
Krystle: Yeah because there's really, there's not much else you can do, right? So it's just let's just nurse the baby and breathe and be in it and you know. But it's funny though how there can be a little bit of a rhythm to the class.
Krystle: As well how they can all start to, you know, one will start and then the other will start and then they'll go and then they'll all one by one calm down and really relax and become quite Zen as well.
Krystle: And it's really interesting to see how when the mums are breathing and the mums are calm that kind of also translates to the babies being calm and sort of in the crying or so settling as well.
Krystle: So I think that was a really beautiful thing to see in the in the postnatal classes. Something I really enjoyed was that connection.
Kathy: Absolutely. Breathing and sound, babies love sound. So you know doing some sort of mantra or just you know some sound. I mean obviously it's not going to work every time but babies are really connected to their mum.
Kathy: So if like you just said if the mum's chilled you know, maybe eight times out of ten that's going to affect the baby. There's going to be other times where it's not, the baby needs something and it needs attention. But absolutely that energy of calming the mum that helps calming the baby.
Moms Need That Space
Krystle: You said also there's a little gap. So there's you know the prenatal yoga that they do during the pregnancy, and then obviously they have the labor, deliver the baby all as well hopefully. And then there's a gap in there. So what's that ideal gap, what do we look for in terms of timing?
Kathy: Look, if the woman has had a caesarean section, then it needs to be longer. It definitely needs to be kind of 12 weeks, sort of have medical checkups and to say yes you're okay to go participate in gentle exercise.
Kathy: For a vaginal birth, my youngest baby has been three weeks and that was to me, that was really young but that mum needed that space. Like she needed to come and be with those other women and to be in that class.
Kathy: So you know, three, four weeks is quite common like quite common. Six weeks is probably common. Three, four weeks is probably early but it depends on the mum's beliefs as well. Like some mums haven't even stepped outside their house at three or four weeks.
Kathy: So that's their energy and that's what they want to do. For me, the class has always been a very gentle class and it's been very appropriate for that time you know postnatally so you know lots of upper body work and building strength when appropriate and building up their core strength once again when they’re ready for it.
Kathy: So I’ve never been concerned of a woman coming too early where I can't you know and I’ve been able to say you know maybe don't do that one right now, you just sit and relax, real rest while we do this one. Or you know give her something else to do if she's not ready for it because the community that space is so important.
Does Post Natal Yoga Work?
Krystle: And so on that I guess let's talk about the benefits of postnatal yoga. For a lot of women there's this real pressure to try and get back into shape, to try and get their old bodies back you know.
Krystle: These are the kind of phrases that you hear new mums sort of struggling with. Just finding that sense of comfort in the change I guess that they've gone through. If we're looking at how postnatal yoga can help with that, what would you say are the benefits there?
Kathy: Look, definitely learning you just mentioned change is a big one. Especially for women that maybe have come from a business role or a busy active role where they've been involved in something.
Kathy: And then all of a sudden their life has kind of gone, hang on a minute it's now all about this baby. And while it's been about the pregnancy they've often still participated in life like nothing's changed.
Kathy: All of a sudden there's this baby that's completely dependent on them, completely responsible for them. So change is massive. Often, I like to give them that opportunity to understand that now is different. So it is you know they talk to each other, they you know, I can express some views in the class.
Kathy: But knowing that they now need to slow down, they now need to be in tune with what's happening with their baby, and there are times that they just need to let their baby sleep and that will produce a happier baby if they do that. So yeah change.
How Breathing Helps
Krystle: I think huge amount of pressure like a massive
Kathy: Huge amount of pressure, absolutely. Not necessarily all from outside but about for themselves that they should have their life together and they should be on top of everything and they should be able to manage this child that has a completely different personality to them and a whole new being.
Kathy: And so many people have opinions about it. It is important I think in a in a class like that, particularly in a class to try to remove a lot of those judgments that people have. Or to allow it to be okay whatever their choice is you know.
Kathy: Whether they have I’ve had women that have come through the anti-vaccination, I’ve had women that have come through the pro-vaccination and that can be a nasty conversation when that gets happening. So really just kind of squishing intensity and but allowing the space to be the community.
Kathy: I mean moving and breathing there's no doubt that moving and breathing is essential for all of us.
Kathy: And a woman that has a new baby spends a lot of time you know kind of doing this and so she needs to move and breathe. She needs to open up a heart. She needs to breathe. So yes that's important but I think the community and the environment is probably even more important.
Post Natal Depression
Krystle: Well I think I read it somewhere and I really can't, it escapes me now where I actually read this. But women who are very independent and have really run their own lives and might come from more of a corporate environment or running their own business and that sort of striving and drive that they have, can also make them more predisposed to suffering things like postnatal depression because of that, in like just intense amount of change and then also it's not just change of becoming a mother and and entering that new phase but also in terms of, in a way losing that old self, pre being you know a mum, right?
Krystle: So what do you think are the key things that yoga can give us or what are the tools that we might learn in a yoga practice. I'd say this would probably start even prenatally as well, right? With the changes that are happening in the body.
Kathy: Yeah, definitely. Look, yoga has massive benefits on so many levels. You mentioned esteem like self-esteem is definitely one of the key drivers for postnatal depression.
Kathy: They say running five women are experiencing postnatal depression. So it's massive. Self-esteem, anxiety, that lack of social support and that change of identity is huge.
Kathy: So yoga I think want the community and I think that's a very yogic thing, is that a community where people are, I mean we can't expect all people to be non-judgmental but you know as much as possible supported to be in a open environment where they accept other people I guess is probably the better comment.
Kathy: But you know watching a woman who, well you mentioned before, about seeing class where babies calm down because the mothers calm. You know if you can teach a woman some tools or a woman can learn some tools that can help her calm in the midst of craziness and then she has that ability to have that effect on her child.
Kathy: That's huge, that's messy for her self-esteem to know that she has the ability to calm her baby. Well she has some tools that she can use when her baby is really out of control, how she can help calm her baby. You know yoga itself just you know perhaps being able to achieve a particular position if we're looking at a physical posture.
Kathy: You know being able to achieve something that she's never been able to do and suddenly doesn't have to be anything hard. You know holding a squat for a minute that she's never been able to do before, or like that builds self-esteem, that builds that reassurance.
Kathy: Just being able to stop seriously, just giving that, giving a woman the chance, the opportunity, and the encouragement to stop and acknowledge what's happening to acknowledge how she's feeling and to be okay. That to me, that's yoga, that's like teaching her tools
Moving Through The Stages of Life as a Mother
Krystle: And I think that translates to all stages of life, right? It's just that having that space to really connect with your body, connects with your breathing, connect with what's sort of existing there for you on a mental emotional level as well. In this case, connecting with the baby
Kathy: Yeah, yeah. Look, I think that's profound. Like you said, it is in all stages of life. I think it becomes even more important for a woman trying to conceive, a woman who's pregnant or a woman postnatally because there's other entities involved you know.
Kathy: There's a partner and then there's a baby and there's other things that are going on. So it seems to be a kind of like a crunch point where women have to stop and connect and get in tune with their bodies um but yes absolutely in any stage of life you know if you could teach a child some of those tools, imagine that, or an older person who's again life is changing and they're going from working to suddenly retiring and that shift that's also enough another massive shift for people in their life. So yes, any time.
How Can Male Partners Support?
Krystle: I have a question which actually just popped into my mind. Have you ever had any of the dads pop into the postnatal yoga classes?
Kathy: I had only one but his wife went back to work and he was feeling very isolated. He was all by himself and he was looking after this new baby, first child that they had. He rang me one day and just said, “look, I know it says for women but would you mind if I came because I really need to connect with some other mums or some other people with babies. And he loved it, he was great!
Kathy: He came for about six months and then you know things moved on for him but I mean obviously the class that I teach is more appropriate for a woman postnatally and rebuilding her strength. But he just loved the connection and he was still moving and breathing. So it was a nice day.
Krystle: I think there's a market for it
Kathy: Yeah! Probably
Krystle: I think you know all of the tools, I remember I used to teach in the postnatal yoga even just the baby gazing you know, staring into the baby's eyes, I mean it's so beautiful. It's beautiful to watch a mother and a baby have that connection but I don't see why we can't have a dad's and bob's class too.
Kathy: Yeah, yeah, no I'd agree. It’s because, it is and can be a very challenging time for men because a woman is suddenly kind of taken away from them in a sense you know the woman's focus becomes on the baby.
Krystle: And the woman if she can, she breastfeeds and that’s very separate from the father. So yeah I agree. Some yoga would be a very important thing for a man at that time. Particularly, if he could be with other men going in, are in the same environment.
How To Improve Over-all Wellbeing as a New Mom
Krystle: Beautiful and just to sort of I guess wrap up this particular discussion, being a naturopath as well as a yoga teacher, if there are new mums watching this, are there any other things that you would suggest they look out for or seek in terms of, whether it be yoga or whether it be support network systems?
Krystle: Any other advice that you could give them for their health and wellbeing but also for the health and well-being of the bob?
Kathy: Yeah, look definitely seeking out the things that you just mentioned so I think yoga and uh they do need to work in a gentle stage. Like, they do need to take care of their bodies.
Kathy: Their bodies have been through a massive thing for nine months of caring and nurturing this baby. So that needs to be acknowledged and taken care of.
Kathy: Definitely, support network I think that's probably the most important thing for women that have just had babies, is that they can be very isolated very much on their own.
Kathy: So some form of network whether that even is just online and a Facebook page, you know, a group or but something where they can talk to other women and say “hey, is this normal, doing this? and this is what's happening, is this normal?”, they need that. I'm also, I have a big love for ayurvedic medicine. I really think, I mean each woman's journey, each person's journey is their own journey and it'll be different from other people.
Kathy: But understanding where they're at in their cycle, their cycle of life, their cycle of their time, the season. Like, connecting with perhaps their doshas and if there's something not quite right in their health of their body.
Kathy: Like really kind of trying to identify what is going on can give them some tools on an ayurvedic level to manage without necessarily needing just to go and get therapy or it might be just a matter of changing something in their routine that can help or changing something in their diet that can help.
Kathy: It's very simple that they can do themselves that would be probably I guess a first place to start before they needed to go on and see a naturopath or a doctor or somebody else which again comes back to being in tune with what's happening for them and their baby and noticing what's normal. Not even what's normal, what's okay and what needs to be dealt with.
How We Can Support
Krystle: I think that's where a lot of I guess the anxiety would come in for new mums as well, right? Is just that whole thing of “okay, this is happening, is it normal? Is this something that I should be concerned about or is it just something that you know is part of the process.”
Krystle: So you know they like, it's really hard to know sometimes. So I guess that's where your previous point of having that connection to a community of other mums who can also provide support and advice.
Kathy: But a well-meaning group. I mean I’ve also experienced where women have talked to me about you know that their baby's not yet doing something on the milestone that they should be doing you know.
Kathy: A supportive group that says your baby's not crawling yet but that's okay you know it will. Finding resourcing the group that's going to be supportive of where you're at.
Krystle: It's a challenge.
Kathy: It's a real challenge! Absolutely, it really is. Babies only know routines. They don't know that it's 11 o'clock which means they need to lay down. They know that their mum is, has wrapped them up a particular way, has fed them, has nursed them a particular way.
Kathy: Maybe even sung a particular song and they get into the routine that okay that means sleep time. But you could do that at any time of the day as long as you do the same routine.
Krystle: It's a sequence of events that signals this is coming. Kathy: Absolutely, yes perfect. So yeah I think that's important for women to have that support, to know that. Because you start researching google or you know my baby's not crawling at six months what's happening and like. So that's not supportive.
Krystle: Kathy, it's been a really good good chat and I know that there'll be a lot of new mums wondering about postnatal yoga and how it can support them and how it can help them. Where can they find you?
Kathy: Look, at the moment, I'm only teaching online. I don't have any set timed classes. So I'm about to release my postnatal class that's all recorded. My website is just kathygrace.com.au. If they want some classes to do and there's some other information in that course as well to help them.
Krystle: Reach out with any questions and things like that as well…
Kathy: Absolutely, yeah definitely. All my contact details are on my website.
Krystle: Kathy’s amazing. She has a world of experience and she's supported so many women through the process. And as we were talking about at the beginning of this chat, she's got mums that she's been connected with for many, many years and seen them through preconception conception post-conception and then now their kids are grown.
Krystle: So she's the one to speak to. Very, very, very experienced and knowledgeable. So thank you so much, Kathy for making time.
Kathy: Thanks, Krystle. Thanks! Really appreciate it.